and she rose to the office of vice president at a bank in hawaii. president obama, when i interviewed him, described him as a madman, which i find really interesting. his grandmother went from being a secretary to a higher role. it wasn't always easy in that family. but he never felt unloved by either of them. he was really adored, even though he was troubled in other ways. and madeleine was always there for him, even though she was not a very emotional person. but she was the dependable pragmatic one. >> host: last hour and a half we have been talking with david maraniss. author of "barack obama: the story." this is his 10th book. it's your turn if you'd like to call in or e-mail. the numbers are up on the screen. booktv at c-span.org and twitter handle is twitter.com/booktv. we will begin taking those in just a few minutes. in your book, you reference dreams from my father quite a bit. here's a little bit for president obama in 2000 for talking about his autobiography. >> i just had an appearance on charlie rose that he was asking me how does the